CLAY: There are now three Republicans… I think, Buck, you got it right when you said that you thought three Republicans would ultimately end up voting for Ketanji Brown Jackson.
BUCK: Not quite Nashville Nostradamus level, but pretty good.
CLAY: Pretty good. Two of the three make sense — and let me explain what I mean by that. Susan Collins in Maine has a perspective that has been consistent and that I respect, and that perspective in general is, “I am going to give deference to the president in general, and the Senate’s job is to advise and consent and look over the nominees, but not to say, ‘Hey, we’re only going to support people who agree a hundred percent with us.'”
And to Susan Collins’ credit, she stepped up and supported Brett Kavanaugh when there was immense pressure on her not to support Brett Kavanaugh and really, when she won reelection — against Cohen, I believe, is who was running against her — the expectation was she was gonna lose. She won comfortably. Maine trusts Susan Collins to make the right decisions.
So I respect the consistency of the principle of Susan Collins when it comes to giving deference to the president whether he’s a Republican or a Democrat and voting for — most of the time — the nominee. Lisa Murkowski, senator from Alaska, is in a tough reelection battle right now, and I believe she is making a political calculation that she’s more likely to win if she supports Ketanji Brown Jackson.
That’s less noble to me. I also think that Murkowski got it one billion percent wrong when she voted against Brett Kavanaugh. That, to me, is reason enough not to be a big fan of her. If I’m an Alaskan voter, I would not be pleased with this decision. She’s been a bit erratic in terms of whether she’s gonna support or not support nominees. She ultimately voted for Amy Coney Barrett. So I’m less impressed by Murkowski, but again, she’s in the middle of an election. The person that I’m disgusted by, Buck, is Mitt Romney.
BUCK: (chuckles) That’s the right word.
CLAY: I am utterly disgusted with Mitt Romney, and it’s not just about this vote, Buck. In the last few weeks, Mitt Romney has said, “I’m voting for Ketanji Brown Jackson.” This one got me way angrier. He voted against repealing the TSA mask mandate, Buck. He was the only senator on the Republican side… Remember there were 57 votes, seven Democrats, or eight Democrats, whatever it was, actually were willing to vote against the TSA mask mandate.
Credit to those Democrats for getting that right. Mitt Romney got that a hundred percent wrong. Remember, Buck, he said, “I’m going to defer to the experts,” even though the experts have deponent almost everything wrong. He didn’t show up to vote on defunding the Biden vaccine mandate — this was a big vote. He wouldn’t even manage to make it there — and remember, he also accused Tulsi Gabbard of treason for opposing war in Ukraine.
Greg Price did a good job of putting all those things together of cowardice, in my opinion, from Mitt Romney. If I’m a Utah voter right now, Buck, I am done with this dude; I want him out of office. I think that he is so concerned now with the New York Times editorial board, writing something nice about him — and also when he dies one day that his obituary in the New York Times is gonna be nice. I think he is a fraud. I think he is a chump. I think that he is everything that is wrong with people get so obsessed with the intelligentsia liking him that they don’t stand up on principle anymore.
BUCK: And he was the Republican nominee for president in 2012, everybody.
CLAY: Yeah. Yep.
BUCK: Just when we talk about the GOP and some of its failings, just remember this was the guy… I mean, I voted for him, so there was that. You know, which now I say out loud I go, “Ew.” But I felt was the better choice at the time. He actually was pretty good back then on border issues, believe it or not. He was a big E-Verify guy.
So there were some things that I could point to and say, “Well, Mitt was better than the alternative.” But, Clay, there is a specific Republican malady, a specific GOP psychological defect whereby people get into elected office and — as you pointed out with the New York Times — they are so quick to stab their own side in the back with just the most meager pat on the head from the Democrat elites.
Just some crumbs from the table of Vanity Fair, and all of a sudden, they forget about why they got there in the first place, what they promised to do for the electorate. There are some other Republicans senators that I’m sure people are thinking about in this context too. By the way, good historical context there from Murkowski. For me, unforgivable for a Republican to have voted against Kavanaugh.
CLAY: I agree.
BUCK: Unforgivable.
CLAY: We got a lot of people who listen in Alaska, Buck. I wouldn’t vote for her. I know she’s got challenger who’s an actual Republican.
BUCK: Yeah.
CLAY: She’s trying to run basically as an independent, and Alaska does have a strong independent streak so parties are less significant.
BUCK: We should dig into who her primary challenger is, or who the other Republican is in that race, because that is a total no go. If you’re Republican and you voted against Kavanaugh you’re no longer, as far as I’m concerned, you shouldn’t be in elective office, at least not as a Republican and not even as an independent. I think that’s outrageous.
So then you get to Collins, which she’s gonna be in a tough one. And here’s the thing, right? You have a likelihood here of a big wave in the House. Senate is a trickier game. And, you know, we gotta play strategically on the right so that we wouldn’t end up… I mean, if you have a Joe Biden last two years of term one — assuming of course he’s gonna stay in for the last two and not step down — you have the House in control, that’s helpful.
You have the House and the Senate in Republican hands; Joe Biden’s just sitting there getting ready to figure out what the… I would say for reelection, but who knows what the plan’s actually gonna be. The Senate map is not super good for Republicans going into this midterm. It’s not gonna be an easy one. You might end up, you know, maybe we get…
If we get a two- or three-seat swing, that would be pretty solid I think for the GOP give an what the map actually looks like. So if we get 53-47 — make sure my math is right there — that would be good. Obviously in the House, I’ve said 50 plus. We gotta go 50 plus. So Susan Collins, I’ll give a pass to. But with Mitt Romney? Clay, Mitt Romney went marching with BLM with his mask on outside.
I guess when you’re worth hundreds of millions of dollars because you basically levered up and looted a bunch of companies with Bain Private Equity back in the day — when you’ve done that — money doesn’t really appeal to you anymore, principle doesn’t really appeal to you anymore, you don’t want to be in the fight. You want people in prominent positions to like you, and that’s the disease that Republicans have, some of them.
CLAY: It’s so pathetic. Again, I give credit to Susan Collins for standing on principle as it pertains to these votes. And again, I’m still fired up — as we just talked about — with Lisa Murkowski. I think she’s made poor decisions. Again, if I’m in Alaska I don’t want her to be my senator, based on what she did with Kavanaugh. But at least she’s been inconsistent, right — and that’s not a praise.
But she’s a unreliable in terms of how she’s going to respond. But for Mitt Romney? He’s not up for reelection. To your point, Buck, he’s got hundreds of millions of dollars. If it’s just this I would say, “Okay, whatever.” But to not be opposed to a mask mandate on airlines, to not stand up and vote against the Biden vaccine mandate, to be willing to turn your back like that on the vast majority of your constituents, on the vast majority of Republicans across the country that are fighting for freedom? I find this guy detestable now. I really do find Mitt Romney to be a detestable person.
BUCK: It’s cheap, false virtue that he’s after, and it really is the equivalent of some of these former Republicans who run over to MSNBC — and maybe they still call themselves Republican or maybe they call themselves independent — and all they do is go on air to trash the side that they supposedly support and represent or did at some point. It’s pathetic. There’s a reason why, you know, the betrayers and the traitors are in the final circle of hell in Dante’s Inferno, right?
There’s just something so unseemly about being that who turns on your own side for the amusement of those who despise you. The left hates Mitt Romney. They don’t like Mitt Romney. They’re not gonna say he’s a good guy for this or whatever; but there’s some people that I guess are on the right — there’s a little, tiny percentage — that are taken in by this and think that Mitt’s standing on principle. No, he’s doing this because then he gets… It’s just all ego driven. He’s just hurting the cause, and for what?
CLAY: He has no future in the Republican Party. And here’s my concern, Buck. It could end up 51-49, and Mitt Romney could be regularly siding with Joe Biden and the Democrats to get them to 50 so Kamala can break ties. Right? He could be for the Republican Party, if the Republicans are in the majority —
BUCK: Think of those sweet, sweet editorials the Washington Post about how Mitt Romney’s a maverick and how he’s cementing his legacy and the Romney brand is separate from the tainted Trump. We can play the whole thing out right now.
CLAY: That’s what I’m afraid of, because to your point now on the Senate map you could end up 51-49 and Romney could be the Republican who is like Joe Manchin is to the Democrats right now: A guy who is willing to buck his own party. The difference is, Joe Manchin is representing a state that voted for Donald Trump by a larger margin than any state in the country. So arguably he needs to be serving his constituents by not being a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat all the time. Mitt Romney represents Utah.
BUCK: Utah! Yeah.
CLAY: Maybe historically the strongest Republican state almost in the country, right?
BUCK: Utah, Wyoming, maybe one or two others in the conversation. Yeah.
CLAY: So he has zero pressure, and in fact — we could probably open up the phones right now — I’m sure that there are a lot of Utah listeners right now who are furious. We’re number one in Salt Lake City, Buck. There’s tons of you listening right now in Salt Lake City and be and I bet you guys are as disgusted with Mitt Romney. Again, it’s not one vote.
BUCK: Yes.
CLAY: It’s the series of votes that he has had or failed to make over the past several weeks which have been a repudiation of much of the Republican agenda.
BUCK: I think it’s important, too, because the pattern here is such a clear indicator because one time you could say, “All right, maybe his principles… I disagree with him, but maybe his principles in this one instance that just happened to get him the pat on the head from the New York Times editorial board or whomever, maybe.” Time after of time? I think he’s got an addiction; he loves those crumbs from the Vanity Fair lib table.
CLAY: Let’s also mention, by the way, Buck, he voted against Ketanji Brown Jackson to be on the D.C. Circuit. So what did he see that made him change his mind? This is an important detail, for people out there. You vote as a senator for the elevation to circuit courts and district courts and everything else. Mitt Romney opposed Ketanji Brown Jackson on the D.C. Circuit.
And then after that testimony, after actually rigorously examining her record, he decided that he was wrong to support her for the D.C. Circuit? This is the flip side of Lindsey Graham, right? Lindsey Graham voted for Ketanji Brown Jackson the D.C. Circuit, said, “Upon reflection, I don’t think that she belongs on the Supreme Court. I’m okay with her being on a circuit court.
“I don’t think that she belongs on the Supreme Court.” Mitt Romney didn’t think that she belonged on the circuit court, which is a less serious job, but he thinks she belongs on the more serious job of the Supreme Court? It’s completely illogical. He’s an imbecile — and I, frankly, find him quite contemptible.
BUCK: Yes.
CLAY: A little bit of fire and brimstone to start off your morning if you’re on the West Coast and is to start off your day if you’re on the East Coast.